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72 year old former Marine pummels 27 year old pickpocket June 27, 2007

Posted by daveintexas in Current Events.
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UPDATE: Video at Hot Air 

I’m starting to think all former Marines should wear a badge or something so people (and bears) would know not to screw with them.

Bill Barnes was standing in a convenience store in Grand Rapids Michigan and scratching off a losing $2 lottery ticket when he felt a hand reach inside his front left pocket.  In that pocket he had about $300 in cash.  He grabbed the thief’s left hand and started pummeling him with his right, landing six or seven punches before the store manager intervened (to save the dumb asses life I’m thinkin).

27 year old Jessie Daniel Rae has been arraigned on one count of unarmed robbery.

Barnes served in the Marines, was an accomplished Golden Gloves boxer, and is a retired iron worker.  Robbing him was a bad idea.

“I guess I acted on instinct,” said Barnes

I’m thinking his instinct was extremely pissed off. 

The store manager came around to help Barnes subdue Rae, until the police arrived.

Barnes can still throw a punch.  “There was blood everywhere,” said another manager on duty, Abby Ostrom, 25.

He said he’d do the same thing again if faced with the same situation.  Why?

“I wouldn’t want my wife to give me hell for lettin’ that guy get my money,” he said with a smile.

Killing bears with logs.  Kicking the ass of a punk more than 40 years younger.

These guys are dangerous.

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Comments»

1. Tushar D - June 27, 2007

Marine + Boxer + Iron Worker?

That idiot should have tried to rob an old lady instead.

2. lauraw - June 27, 2007

Barnes said he’d probably do the same thing again under the same circumstances

I wonder if Mr. Barnes volunteered that remark or if the reporter actually asked him if he’d do it again.

3. daveintexas - June 27, 2007

Did you see his photo? Dude looks like a total bad-ass, even at 72.

4. Bosk - June 27, 2007

Ha…the guys lucky he lived.

5. nicedeb - June 27, 2007

Oh my God, I love stories like this.

By the way, is somebody with the name, Jessie Rae going to be anything but white trash?

6. TXMarko - June 27, 2007

Finally, some GOOD news!

7. Dave in Texas - June 27, 2007

Silly Deb, he’s not white trash.

He’s black and blue trash.

Semper Fideles. Latin for “You really don’t want to screw with me”.

8. Anna-Lys - June 27, 2007

And the guy probably only wanted some coins for bread that day … stupid to carry around 300 in the pocket.
But, if he only had had a dime in his pocket … he probably would have acted the same way! Who can blame a legal trained killer maschine????

9. daveintexas - June 27, 2007

It’s funny, this morning when I heard this story on the radio, the host said “now some liberal will call me up, and tell me how horrible it is that this poor man got beaten, and surely he didn’t know how much money this brutal man was carrying, and certainly didn’t mean to harm him, was probably hungry, had some problems, and just needed help”. And I thought to myself “Dude, are you kidding me? That is the most mind-bendingly stupid argument/justification you could offer up? Who wouldn’t be embarrased to utter it”?

And see how wrong I was?

10. Anna-Lys - June 27, 2007

LOL :-)

Fight them bloddy and become a hero forever!

11. geoff - June 27, 2007

I’m waiting for your post on Delay.

Who can blame a legal trained killer maschine????

…and that sort of mean-spirited generalization is why we call liberals hypocrites.

12. Anna-Lys - June 27, 2007

Honestly … how many years does this marine get behind the bars? Was it worth it? He is old … and blaming on his wife … so strong!
The young guy get 15 years and I guess a lot of many from the older one … if it was in Europe, that is.

And when I read the whole article … I can’t see that it was not planed from the beginning. he had an eye on that young man … the whole time. Maybe he had an argument with his wife before he left home? … maybe the young guy never ever touched his pocket! He only needed to give some a punch.

We actually don’t know anything but, that the store manager had to interven … other ways the guy had been killed … or?

My argumentation has nothing with “liberals” to do. I can do my own reflections without being a “liberal” … and “liberal” doesn’t have any meaning to me, I am Swedish, not American.

I think it is interesting when people analys and go beyond the obvious given in news papers. Even more interesting when people discuss from different cultures … are You always against different thinkings, aspects and points of view?

Thanks for the comment!

13. geoff - June 27, 2007

And the guy probably only wanted some coins for bread that day … stupid to carry around 300 in the pocket.

…and that sort of Dickensian plight has long since ceased to be common in this country, though I’m sure it will never be far from liberals’ hearts.

the store manager had to interven

The store manager intervened on the side of the victim, and pinned the pickpocket to the ground. He clearly had no problem deciding who the real offender was.

14. Anna-Lys - June 27, 2007

To Geoff

That expression was meant to explain his own words “I acted on INSTINCT” … meaning … he did not think … he did what he was trained to do … which I understood!

15. Anna-Lys - June 27, 2007

To Geoff (again)
:-)

I tried to turn the article upsidedown … to reflect

1. he had an eye on that guy from the bank
2. he acted on instinct

What is wrong in this article????

No affense … to You … only to the writer

16. geoff - June 27, 2007

That expression was meant to explain his own words “I acted on INSTINCT”

There is a broad gulf between defending oneself against robbery and being a “killing machine.” Calling someone a “killing machine” in the context you used is a huge insult.

maybe the young guy never ever touched his pocket!

?? He trapped the thief’s hand inside his pocket!

17. Anna-Lys - June 27, 2007

GEOFF
Is it an insult to You?
Then I am sorry … not my meaning at all.
To me it is an expression for “routine learning” a must in military training … You are not suppose to thing when You stand eye to eye with the enemy!
IF You should think … ohh a human —> You will get killed in war!

Do we have evidens like video when he stick the hand in his pocket?

I think it is important to question media reports!

Non-liberal-Anna

18. Anna-Lys - June 27, 2007

… and excuse me for all the misspellings!

19. geoff - June 27, 2007

Is it an insult to You?

It’s an insult to all US military. So yes, it’s an insult to me, my wife, my father, her father, her brother, and two of our brothers-in-law.

20. Anna-Lys - June 27, 2007

“He immediately grabbed the person’s wrist with his left hand and started throwing punches with his right, landing six or seven blows before a store manager intervened.”

Do I miss something here?

I have checked on every article about it, and it says that the manager had to interven … so the blows stopped! Doesn’t it?

21. geoff - June 27, 2007

I have checked on every article about it, and it says that the manager had to interven … so the blows stopped!

From the article: The three of them struggled through the front door, where two witnesses said the manager slammed Rae to the ground and held him there.

So the manager helped the old man push the thief out the door, and then the manager slammed the thief to the ground. One presumes that the punching was over by the time the manager started helping.

22. Anna-Lys - June 27, 2007

Geoff,

What else can I do but say I am sorry, it was absolutely not meant to be an insult. Do you accept, and understand that I have been training soldiers??? I know what kind of mechanism I am talking about.
Without it … You are no operative military man/woman. Then You have to stay by the desk, planing the operations.

23. Anna-Lys - June 27, 2007

IF I read this article instead;
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19442397/

I say Hurray for the old man !!!!

(but it is not that bloody)

:-)

24. Anna-Lys - June 27, 2007

I just received an e-mail that I meet this post with ignorance, and are not informed … so dear cyberians … I will not interfere in this discussion … because I thought it was a discussion.
I always thought that putting forward a news article on a blog was by the means of wishing to discuss the content. To not do that is being ignorante, to me, that is :-)
On the other hand … what do I understand being on the other side of the water, with different ways of thinking and finding joy and development in argumentation and rethoric.

take care

25. daveintexas - June 27, 2007

oh boo fucking hoo. You didn’t read the article, you barfed leftist pap all over it (he has problems… the old man, he shouldn’t have had so much money, oh if we could only solve the problems of the poor boy that wanted to steal from the old man).

And then when you read it, you find out, “oh, wow. maybe the old man was a potential victim”?

What if the 27 year old asshole had hit the old man in the head with a pipe to solve his little societally imposed problem?

It happens you know.

26. kevlarchick - June 27, 2007

Robbing people is wrong. So you right the wrong by disabling the robber before he can commit another crime on a weaker person, like me.

I would have pummeled, but also been pummeled.

Thank God for that Marine.

27. Anna-Lys - June 27, 2007

LOL

You have a way with words ….very informative!?!
Just tell me WHY they made a fool of the old ex-marine in the article?
THAT WAS BAD …. in the other article he is presented with respect!

28. Dave in Texas - June 27, 2007

Uh, Anna-Lys,

They glorified that former Marine in the article.

They celebrated his manhood and his self defense.

Read it again.

They didn’t call him a fool. You did.

They called him a hero. A man who stood up for himself, and kicked that little shithead’s ass.

And that’s what he is. A tough old Marine who said “fuck you, you little shit” and pounded him into the ground.

29. nicedeb - June 27, 2007

I think Anna-Lys has inadvertently demonstrated the difference between how Europeans and Americans view self defense.

And I’m sure she didn’t mean to offend.

30. daveintexas - June 27, 2007

First she started blathering about how the poor thief had problems… without having read the story.

Until she’s willing to say that asshole’s problems aren’t Bill Barnes’ problems I don’t give a wet shit what she thinks about it.

And I don’t think she’s willing to blame Jessie. My guess, we’ll see how it goes.

It’s not about offense. It’s about human dignity. If Theo Van Gogh can die on a street begging for his life from a knife wielding asshole, we all can if we aren’t willing to fight back. And assert that as our right, as human beings.

31. geoff - June 27, 2007

Speaking of which, I wonder how the UN is coming along with its “ban all firearms of member nations as part of people’s right to be free from violence” push. Haven’t checked in on them in several months. I’ll bet they’re up to no good.

32. Anna-Lys - June 28, 2007

Good Morning

Answering Your comment at my blog:

Dave
Apparently, I have some problems here with the software translation … don’t recognize a word You say about me (as a person) … except about the article.

I still don’t like they way the media deals with this terrible situation.

And that has nothing to do with me not being able to handle that a 72 year old ex-marine make a bloody mess of a 27 year old … or that a 27 year old try to rob a 72 year old. It is the way the media focus not on the situation at hand, but on the danger of having ex-marines lose on the streets acting as animals by instinct. I think it was irrespectively … and that was what I tried to show You … in different ways.

I think it is very important to reflect over words served by the media, the third power in the world. And I will keep using my reflective thinking when reading media.

Dave again
IF you had reflected over my post … You had understood that this was a big joke in the interpretation of the new laws. :-D
Infected people stay at home. People with a broken leg works with the head.

****

AND AGAIN … using the Cyberworld to get into and understand the difference between us and our way of thinking can be a good learning process between European and Americans.
That You call me a lot of different words like “liberal” and socialist” does not help or hurt in any way … not in my world. To discuss a matter is not to start discussing about me and what I am. that I see as a change of subject … with all respect … this is not a war … it is a sharing of opinions about how to present accidents in breaking-news.

Have a Lovely Day!

33. daveintexas - June 28, 2007

You’re complaining about the media now?
Do you have any idea how often you’ve changed the topic in this thread?

34. Anna-Lys - June 28, 2007

Dear Dave,

Why do You blog about the article? IF You don’t want opinions on the article … I didn’t understood the meaning as calling FN about unethical media reports.

No one reflects over that old people actually all over the world are insecure while leaving the home. Why not discuss that matter in the light of that not everybody has the guts this old man had.

Next time a little 4 year old boy make a bloody mess out of the boy next door that took his toy … either by shooting him with dads gun or banging a stone in his head. How do we explain that this little fellow is not a hero, or is he? We get the society we create. Small people does have ears … and do as we do, not as we say not to do … some things are better to talk about with “small letters”. Parents and absolutely media has a responsibility of how our society develops … and I think we have to discuss what kind of behavior we want in the future.

I know we think different about heroism … but in this article I think it would have been better to put forward the bad behavior it is to rub older people. We not only think and communicate different Dave, we also read different. There is no truth behind which way is the right way to think … only respect can widen the horizon. You think my arguments are ignorant … yeah what shall I say about Yours? Nothing at all … because this is not about You or me … it is about glorifying violence and blood … instead of power to act against robbers despite old age.

35. geoff - June 28, 2007

I think the language barrier is insurmountable on this one. Nobody was glorifying violence or blood – we were chuckling over a bad guy getting what he deserved from a 72 year old man. We were chuckling over a victim turning the tables on a criminal. And we were respecting the strength preserved in an old Marine.

We still are.

36. lauraw - June 28, 2007

How much cash is OK for a person to carry in their pocket? Should we put a limit on this? What if there are large purchases to make that day?

When someone watches us place the money and then later we find that person’s hand in our pocket, what is the proper course of action?

Should we interview the robber and determine if he is hungry or merely looking for drug money (in the US, it is almost always the latter)?

Do we have the right to strike at someone who physically violates us in this way?

I can’t believe I was able to come up with all these stupid and pointless questions so quickly.

37. Dave in Texas - June 28, 2007

I can’t improve upon the last two comments.

I’m not trying to persuade you not to offer your opinion, not banning you. I’m disagreeing with you. My comment about “ignorance” was specifically directed to your not having read the article, instead you immediately offered up your opinion without knowing the relevant facts of the story.

38. Anna-Lys - June 28, 2007

Dear Dave,
I was from the beginning not aware (enough) of they way You people blogs by putting forward what have been written elsewhere. I meet Your words … after being aware I corrected (is that allowed) and read the whole article and three others on the same subject. Then I took a breathe … lol …. and spoke again … keeping myself on the track and the track that You first took.

To me it is a completely different way of blogging, but I like it … but, one has to learn the others cyber-culture first … and learning takes time … when You are as old as I am :-D

I still think it is lovely that people can have different opinions … that is if this is not a communistic blog *LOL* ;-))

(( hugs ))

39. lauraw - June 28, 2007

More questions: Who is the aggressor and who is the victim? Who is the innocent person here?

If someone has been uniquely trained as a fighter, does that mean he is no longer allowed to defend his property?

Would the situation seem more fair if a person being robbed does not know how to defend himself?

40. Anna-Lys - June 28, 2007

May I answer Lauraw?

41. lauraw - June 28, 2007

Why certainly.

42. Anna-Lys - June 28, 2007

LAURAWś Questions

1. How much cash is OK for a person to carry in their pocket? Should we put a limit on this? What if there are large purchases to make that day?
—> I would say it depends on the pocket size.

2. When someone watches us place the money and then later we find that person’s hand in our pocket, what is the proper course of action?
—> If the person watched you place the money in the pocket … I would go to nearest Ladies Room and put it in my bra, for those without a bra I would suggest the boots.

3. Should we interview the robber and determine if he is hungry or merely looking for drug money (in the US, it is almost always the latter)?
—> IF it is interesting interview, by all means. Personally I would use Judo, then empty his pockets (looking for knives or other weapons) while having my hi-heels on his chest.

4. Do we have the right to strike at someone who physically violates us in this way?
—> Don’t know why they call me Modesty Bake … ;) I don’t look upon a hand in my pocket as physical … but as a huge integrity violence … I sure would take the pants of him.

5. I can’t believe I was able to come up with all these stupid and pointless questions so quickly.
—> No comments :)

6. Who is the aggressor and who is the victim? Who is the innocent person here?
—> No one is innocent in the end and they are both victims under the circumstance.

7. If someone has been uniquely trained as a fighter, does that mean he is no longer allowed to defend his property?
—> Absolutely not! But, in my country this man would be looked upon as as if he had used unnecessary weapons.

8. Would the situation seem more fair if a person being robbed does not know how to defend himself?
—> In my country we learn self-defense at school … but as a fence against violence … not to violate or harm!

Tnx :)

43. lauraw - June 28, 2007

One of the biggest problems with living in Hartford was the prevailing attitude that criminals were something other than what they actually were- dirtbag criminals who would punch an old lady in the face for five dollars.

The attitude was that criminals were actually the victims somehow. Always a search on for the root cause of criminality, but never any acceptance that some people are simply rotten and anti-social and have no empathy for anyone.

And thus crime flourishes, because you cannot coddle true villains and preserve public safety at the same time.

In order to protect innocent people, who are going about their business harming no one, you have to take sociopaths and criminals out of circulation.
This man is a hero to me because he helped to do this. Certainly this punk would have robbed again, but certainly would have chosen a weaker victim.

44. daveintexas - June 28, 2007

If you’ve seen the video over at Hot Air, you’ll notice this punk certainly had a lot of energy. It’s almost as if he could, work for a living or something.

45. Jenny - June 28, 2007

Anna-Lys, you sound like a dumbass twat.

Maybe you should take to heart the old saying, better to look stupid than open your mouth and prove it.

46. lauraw - June 28, 2007

lmao, Jenny!
Nice burn.

Just checked out the video from the store.

In the second angle, it kind of falls together; he confronts the guy behind him who’s hand is definitely in his pocket.

If he wants to keep what belongs to him, he MUST keep the thief’s hand, because the thief probably already had hold of the cash and was ready to bolt at the first opportunity.

And he put up quite a struggle against two much bigger men, didn’t he? If they had let go for a second he would have been impossible for them to catch on foot.

47. geoff - June 28, 2007

It’s so hard to fathom the attitude that “they’re both victims.” Committing a crime always involves a choice by the criminal to prey upon others, break the law, and commit moral wrongs. To our mind, that clearly places the criminal in the “predator” category.

When a criminal perpetrates a crime against a victim, we believe that the criminal has yielded his rights, and that the victim has license to take whatever action is necessary to ensure the sanctity of his person, his family, and his property (but no more action than that). The victim has no knowledge of the criminal’s ultimate intent or if the criminal is armed, so the victim’s response is allowed to be somewhat disproportionate to the obvious threat.

As to the criminal’s motivations, let me put forward something I just thought of, or (in the King’s English) something of which I just thought.

Worrying about criminals’ motivations is useful in terms of social policy formulation, if, for example, a significant number of criminals are being driven to crime by economic necessity or by some flaw in upbringing that is endemic to society. But on a case-by-case basis, worrying about each individual’s motivations is a pointless exercise, and that is where our liberal correctional philosophy has gone astray.

There’s more, but I’m out of time and running out of interest.

48. daveintexas - June 28, 2007

Jenny just reminded me that wordiness is not always the clearest form of communicating.

49. daveintexas - June 28, 2007

There are a few drug addicts that walk up to our church on Sunday mornings. They’re just looking for a handout, but they’re creepy looking and scare the ladies and the kids. Usually they’re high.

I typically intercept them at the door, talk to them for a few minutes, until they realize no one’s giving them any money this morning, and they leave (sometimes angry).

When I talk to them, if they reach into their pockets, I interrupt them and say very clearly “keep your hands out of your pockets”.

50. Mrs. Peel - June 28, 2007

It is the way the media focus not on the situation at hand, but on the danger of having ex-marines lose on the streets acting as animals by instinct.

That is a disgusting slur.

51. nicedeb - June 28, 2007

Anna-Lys,

The media wasn’t focusing on anything. It was just reporting what happened.

You seem to be the one focusing on what the former marine did.

52. andy - June 28, 2007

No one is innocent in the end and they are both victims under the circumstance.

Well, yes, one pickpocket is the victim of a righteous fist-pounding, but that’s a good thing.

Now, I agree, there could be circumstances where a man or woman is reduced to thieving for their existence, but (a) I would expect it to take the form of potentially non-violent theft and (b) in our society of much public and private outreach to the downtrodden, there’s no excuse for it other than being a dirtbag in need of a pounding.

53. TXMarko - June 29, 2007

… was anyone else, umm, excited about Anna-Lys’ comments that she keeps money in her bra, and would use judo to get someone on the ground and pin them there with her high heels, while she frisked them?

I need to book a flight to Sweden!

54. Anna-Lys - July 2, 2007

:-)

Jenny —> If You write in Swedish … would You sound very intelligent? Maybe, You are Swedish?? Still I like a good multinational discussion. You are of course free to think whatever You need about me. Just remember, You don’t know me.

Nice Deb –> Did You also read all the articles? And You still don’t see the difference? He is a hero in other articles, but not this one, that Dave happened to bring forth.

55. daveintexas - July 2, 2007

Anna-Lys,

Your english is much better than you are giving yourself credit for. I don’t think anyone is having trouble understanding what you mean.

56. Michael - July 3, 2007

I don’t think anyone is having trouble understanding what you mean.

None at all. That’s your problem.

57. daveintexas - July 3, 2007

word


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